Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

General Discussions
#56

I wouldn’t throw java overboard so quickly because of some lawsuit. I’d say such patent lawsuits are business as usual.
Yes, I’m also concerned, and I’m no fan of Larry Ellison and Steve Jobs either, but them rubbing eachothers backs won’t keep me from doing what I’m doing now. For me, java is still the best technology for what I want to achieve.
The only reason for me to jump ship to other technology would be because I found something better, not because I let some political bullshit rule my decisions.

[quote]Does this also lay the typical pro-C# arguments, about how M$ is cool because it has opened up C# and whatnot, to rest?
[/quote]
I was surprised about the number of .NET zealots that wasted no time into pointing out how superior C# is and how Android should go away from java and go for C# instead.

#57

Time has changed. Oracle has contacted me 3 times (whereas I have created no killer application), a French manager even gave me his phone number. I won’t leave the boat now and I don’t understand pessimistic things said here. What’s wrong? Java works, it could be better but it still works. What has become the Java Store?

#58

wow

Oracle not about to sue anybody over Javascript
#59

For someone like myself and my company (and others) who has invested a lot of time and thus money into Java, you have to take these risks seriously.
After these steps, who knows what Oracle will pull next. And their friendship with Apple is NOT a good thing imho. Might as well have married M$.

I just want to know if the platform I am working on has a future or not.
The thing that made Java so great was, besides the cool features, that it was openly available for every platform.

Though to be honest I wonder what could possibly replace Java on the (JEE) server side. Java has been brilliant for this use case.
Maybe Google will come up with a replacement (BINJ : BINJ is not Java :wink: )

#60

+1 LOL

#61

JEE isn’t going anywhere, let’s not forget that Oracle has a lot of business there. And also let’s not forget that this is about Android/Dalvik.
I’m concerned too, but I think a lot of people here are waaaay too panicy about the whole thing.

Oracle not about to sue anybody over Javascript
#62

Indeed. We have to put this in perspective: this isn’t actually about Java at all. Although I think Google have been a bit cheeky, they have a very good case. This is why the suit is about patents, not about the use of Java.

Cas :slight_smile:

#63

FYI


#64

Oracle’s side:

http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/why-oracle-was-right-sue-google-392-1

#65

well its nice to see google spinning this to say that Oracle is suing not only them but also the open source community.

#66

If Oracle really goes through with this and wins, who knows who they will go after next.
The ref to SCO was quite fitting.

But you can rest assured, Java will die if they do win. And if they do not, Java is still threatened.

I’d really like to see what the developer base thinks about this. Does this already effect them (i.e. bad publicity for Java). Do they think it will?
Let’s forget about facts or whatnot, this is about emotions and they drive us.

#67

To me it looks like Google is depending a bit too much on their ‘coolness factor’ compared to Oracle’s stiff corporate image.

#68

As far as emotions go, I think everyone is over reacting. Oracle won’t necessarily kill Java (they might, they’ve been silent and somewhat inept, but they might also have a good turn around), but fear of them killing java certainly will.

Also, IMO if Oracle does win, it could mean good things for Java. Right now, Oracle is targeting Google’s Android, which isn’t that big of market share of Java programs out there. Any change to Android’s programming language wouldn’t kill Java. If Oracle wins, they get more revenue which they very well could put back into Java.

Now all of this is optimistic (and potentially naive) but I think it’s useful to realize that legal battles between heavy hitters doesn’t necessarily mean bad things.

#69

+1

#70

I actually think Dalvik/Android sucks. It should have had a proper J2SE stack, end of. Then it would at least have been pretty fast from the outset.

Cas :slight_smile:

#71

With 64mb for everything? Dalvik was designed for a low memory footprint and it was a complete success in that regard.

J2SE wouldn’t have worked. Well, today it’s perhaps an option. Now that there are 256-512mb of RAM or even more.

#72

I agree with you and I’m not motivated, I don’t want to code on Android. Things that are usually fast on J2SE are slow on Android :frowning: (getters, setters, etc…). I don’t want a fake renamed J2SE on mobiles, I want a real J2SE-scale JVM with a good JIT compiler and an OpenGL access with the same OpenGL binding that I use on a desktop computer.

“J2SE Embedded” is well designed for a low memory footprint (it requires only 32 MB).

#73

J2SE on phones doesn’t really make much sense. I mean, Swing on a phone? CORBA anyone?
The only problem with Android is the Dalvik VM pre-2.1, in 2.2 it’s already much better (still not perfect, but really better).

#74

When I say J2SE you know I really mean “All the core stuff and the natty JVM, without AWT and Swing and other stuff wot doesn’t make sense on a phone” :wink:

Cas :slight_smile:

#75

Of course, what you mean is something like HotSpot :slight_smile: